House committee debates gun bill aimed at eliminating permits to carry

The constitutional rights of gun owners versus safety concerns was the theme inside a packed hearing room Wednesday.

In the end, nothing was settled.

Under current law, a person may not carry a pistol in a public place unless they are in possession of a permit to carry. The requirement does not apply to peace officers.

Sponsored by Rep. Jim Nash (R-Waconia), HF188, as amended, would, in part, eliminate the permit requirement. The bill was held over by the House Public Safety and Security Policy and Finance Committee for possible omnibus bill inclusion.

A companion, SF650, sponsored by Sen. Paul Utke (R-Park Rapids), awaits action by the Senate Judiciary and Public Safety Finance and Policy Committee.

Maplewood Police Chief Paul Schnell testifies in opposition to HF188 sponsored by Rep. Jim Nash, left, during the March 8 House Public Safety and Security Policy and Finance Committee hearing on two gun-related bills. Photo by Paul Battaglia

Trying to allay fears of bill opponents, Nash noted the proposal would not allow someone who cannot now legally carry a firearm to do so, such as convicted felons. He noted his bill would actually toughen the consequences for such instances by increasing the penalty for unlawfully carrying a firearm from a gross misdemeanor to a felony.

“A prohibited person carrying a firearm in public is committing a serious offense,” Nash said. “Increasing this to a felony recognizes the seriousness of that offense.”

The bill would also require the Department of Public Safety to pursue reciprocity agreements with other states so someone crossing state lines while carrying a firearm would not be a felon.

Among arguments made by supporters, including the National Rifle Association, are the change would recognize Second Amendment rights for someone to carry as he or she chooses.

“Twelve states have passed constitutional carry and five or six more are expected this year and another dozen or so in the next few years,” said Rob Doar, political director for the Gun Owners Caucus. He said crime rates in the states that have passed constitutional carry have remained flat or decreased. “There is no correlation that’s been noted between constitutional carry and increased homicide rates.”

Fred Guercio of Burnsville said gun owners stop 2.4 million crimes a year across the country.

Rep. Raymond Dehn (DFL-Mpls) said he understands the passion for people to carry firearms, but wonders what problem the bill aims to solve.

“I choose not to live my life with that kind of fear that I am threatened every moment of the day, that I need to carry a gun to protect myself. If that’s the way you think, and if that’s the way you function in your life, you don’t know what freedom is,” he said.

Tim Nelson has a carry permit and is a member of the NRA. Speaking against the bill, the Air Force veteran believes there is “a great responsibility” that goes with Second Amendment rights.

WATCH Committee discussion of the bill on YouTube

“As a responsible gun owner, having to renew (my permit) every five years is not a burden to me,” he said. “Permitless carry undermines the very systems that promote responsible and safe gun ownership.”

He was far from alone, as people representing law enforcement and county attorneys voiced opposition. 

Maplewood Police Chief Paul Schnell noted there are education and training requirements needed to currently obtain a carry permit. “HF188 eliminates those safety training requirements for those who choose to constitutionally carry. Allowing even people who have never handled a gun to carry one in public, we feel represents a significant community safety concern.”

The Rev. Rolf Olson from Richfield Lutheran Church had a personal story for why he’s against the bill.

His 24-year-old daughter was killed when responding to a nanny ad on Craigslist. The 19-year-old perpetrator said he killed her because he wanted to know what it felt like to kill someone.

“We have standards that people need to meet to graduate, to get a job, to drive a car. We have standards to get elected to the state Legislature,” he said. “This bill would eliminate almost all standards to get a deadly weapon in this state. … How would that protect public safety?”